Single line mainsail reefing on IP35

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10 years 6 months ago #2363 by sailors35
Single line mainsail reefing on IP35 was created by sailors35
This would only apply to non-furling mainsails. I long ago did away with the shuttle system in boom. To reef I now go to mast and hook forward part of sail to reef hook, then pull down aft end of sail from cockpit. I know there have been projects where by adding additional line organizers, etc. some have done this by with extra reef lines led to cockpit. I am wondering if this could be done with a single line for each reef using existing hardware? Has anyone tried this and if so what issues they found. Too much friction, poor sail shape, etc. I think Hayden may have once posted his thoughts on this idea. Many thanks.

Many thanks, Mike Ratliff

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10 years 6 months ago #2369 by Delicia
Replied by Delicia on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Mike,

I don't understand exactly what you are asking, but here is what we have done on Delica for our third reef. It may be like what you are trying to do, I hope it is helpful in answering your question.

We have the single line first and second reefing as installed by IP. For the third reef we installed two double blocks at the base of the mast and on the house. We also installed two cheek blocks on the port side of the boom. The luff reefing line comes down thru the blocks at the base of the mast and on one side of the one on the house to the port side of the cockpit. The clew line goes from the third reef ring on the rear of the sail straight down thru the rear cheek block thru the forward cheek block and then runs parallel to the luff reefing line thru the double blocks back to the cockpit.

On the house on the left side of the cockpit I installed one extra thru bolted cleat - easy to do. When we use this reef we have already taken two reefs and they are left in because they help keep the sail in place. We drop the main to the third reef point and cleat the luff down haul reef line. Then we use the port sail winch to tighten the clew reef line, and then finally we retighten the halyard. This gives a nice sail shape that is just a little higher than the stay sail. All from the cockpit.

It works well but it isn't as nice as an in-mast system. We put it on for thunderstorms blowing off Florida into the Gulf Stream.

Hope this helps

George

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10 years 6 months ago #2379 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Mike:

I have been looking at the idea of removing the shuttle blocks in the boom and simply running single line reefs. The goal is to eliminate the boom shuttle so that the reefing lines run easier and free. This idea can be accomplished with out adding anything and by just using existing gear. To improved on the idea, blocks could be added at the sail friction points, but may not be needed. These lines would need to be monitored for chafe but then again, it would be very easy to simply cut off the end and tie the bowline at a new point.

My idea rigs like this: Start at the cockpit, run to the mast using existing reef gear, turn at the base of the mast go up to the reef point in the sail, turn back down run into the boom at the gooseneck. Run out the boom end and up to the sail reef point, turn and come back down to the boom where you tie a bowline around the boom.

This is illustrated here.



I have not yet installed this, but now with my boom and mast off, this may be the time to try it out.

What do you think?

It seems to me that this would work well, and there really is not much force when reefing if you drop the halyard and keep the tension off that. Then once it is in, you can load it up with the halyard again.

Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD
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10 years 5 months ago #2395 by sailors35
Replied by sailors35 on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Hayden, thanks for the reply.

This is exactly what I have been considering (per your diagram). Since my boat is in Jolly Harbour, Antigua I am faced with a couple of issues-

1. Calculation of the length of each reef line. Spoke with factory and they gave me a couple of formulaes. Ex. 1st reef aft 1.5 x E and 1st reef forward 4.0 x E. Got a total of 77 feet. Does this seem reasonable?

2. Thoughts on line diameter. Thinking of using Sta-Set. Have used Sta-Set X on other boats, but seemed stiff to handle. Priced Dyneema, whoa!

Thanks, Mike

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10 years 5 months ago #2399 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Mike:
I thought I had the dimensions on a drawing but I can not find it. I actually measure my sail reef points for this exact idea. I ordered the reef lines and I have them on the boat. I will not get to the stored line for a few weeks so I do not have the measurements. I can measure this again about the 3rd week of Nov. As for line, I bought the same size as the IP factory reef lines were original.

Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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10 years 5 months ago #2431 by Ed Finn
Replied by Ed Finn on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Hayden, et al.
My IP 35 reef lines are rigged just like your drawing...
Thats they way the Previous Owner had it done...
I did get some chafe on the reefing lines, right where the block on the sail meets the block in the forward end of the boom.
I think if you reefed down a little less- say 6" less at the gooseneck, then chafe would not be a problem...
But even so, going forward to the mast to hook in the
Luff, is still a good idea, and an unencumbered reef line on the leech is foolproof.

Ed

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10 years 5 months ago - 10 years 5 months ago #2456 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
We have a PROBLEM.....my above sketch will not work with the factory original Isomat Auto Reffing system due to the fact that then boom sheaves drop into the boom ends from the top. So, in my sketch, you will see that the reef line forces will pull the boom end sheaves UP and out of the boom. The Isomat design pulls DOWN on the boom end sheaves and they stay in place.

So, it looks like the solution would be to drill a through bolt in the boom caps making the sheaves ride on a fixed shaft that can not lift out of the boom.

Since I do nto want to do this, I will be rebuilding my boom with factory original Isomat setup. Not sure this is the best solution, but that is what I am looking at now.

Here is the Factory Isomat Orig: Notice the direction of loads....down



www.rigrite.com/Spars/Isomat_Spars/Isoma...Isomat_AutoReef.html

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD
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Last edit: 10 years 5 months ago by hayden.

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10 years 5 months ago #2457 by mluskin
Replied by mluskin on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
FYI, the factory reefing system works pretty well on my IP27, and it works even better if the many lines that run inside the boom are clear of one another! I discovered this recently when I opened up the end cap on the boom and pulled everything out -- I wanted to shift the reef lines (I have 2 reefs in my mainsail) from the inner sheaves to the outer sheaves -- and I discovered that the reef lines were tangled with the outhaul and topping lift lines. After clearing the lines (and lubing the shuttle sheaves) and running the reef lines through the outer sheaves in the boom cap, both reefs work fine, and much more smoothly than they used to.

Michael Luskin
"Turtleheart" IP27-146
Scarsdale, NY

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10 years 5 months ago #2458 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Michael:
I will be rebuilding the exact same system as factory installed at this point. I will be replacing the sheaves and, like you, I plan to take apart the boom cap and make sure all is running fair. Thanks for the reminder.
Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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7 years 4 months ago #5358 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Mission completed. We now have installed our single line reefing as outlined above. The changes that needed to be made were in the gooseneck boom end cap where the sheaves needed to be thru bolted so that the reefing line pull can be up rather than down. With the bolt inplace, now we could run the standard single line reefing system and we removed the shuttle cars inside the boom. So far on our second sailing test this as worked well. It is still a lot of line to pull back up and out of the boom when you are going from a double reef to a full main sail, but putting int he reef was a breeze and worked very well. I may need to work out the leads to be a bit more fair but over all, it all worked out. Here is a link to the photo essay:

Photos here:
www.ipyoa.com/photos?view=album&aid=2404

Here is one picture:


Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD
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7 years 3 months ago #5359 by cat30
Replied by cat30 on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Had you considered running the reefing lines outside the boom instead of inside? I had this on another boat years ago

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7 years 3 months ago #5360 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Don:
I could have done that, outside the boom, but the blocks are there inside the boom ends already, so I wanted to use them. It seems to work well.
Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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7 years 3 months ago #5361 by mluskin
Replied by mluskin on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Looking at this photo, I wonder whether the reef line will chafe or bind up at the sharp angle through the luff ring on the sail. Have you considered adding a bullet block there?

Also, one of the virtues of the two-line shuttle rig is that it's pretty easy to balance so the luff and leech rings are pulled down to the boom together. is your single-line system similarly easy to balance?

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7 years 3 months ago - 7 years 3 months ago #5362 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Michael:
Yes, I will add a block to the sail if I see this 1/2" line chafing or having any issues. I have never had a reef line chafe front or back over all these years and we usually sail with a reef in all the time in the ocean. I have never had a block on the back of the sail or the front.

As for pulling this all down together, front and back, it worked far better than my original factory setup. I simply lowered the main halyard with one hand on one winch and then by hand pulled in the reef lines on the other winch. I have my halyards marked so I know exactly how far to drop to the reef point. Then I can simply pull the reef lines tight and add a few winch turns to tighten them. Then it is back up a foot with the halyard and it is set.
Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD
Last edit: 7 years 3 months ago by hayden.

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7 years 3 months ago #5363 by mluskin
Replied by mluskin on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Also, you might try running the line straight from the deck to the luff ring, bypassing the ring on the mast. That may give a fairer run.

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5 years 11 months ago - 5 years 11 months ago #6099 by Dosamantes
Replied by Dosamantes on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Good afternoon Hayden,

We have the same issue with out single line reefing system, the twisting of the shuttle blocks inside the boom.
Not being any kind of engineer, it occurred to me that the original configuration of the reefing system has a critical flaw, that being that the shuttle blocks are solid. In order to maintain the, what appears to be a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage in the system, the simplest solution would be to replace the solid shuttle blocks with blocks that have some sort of swivel. I have searched for such shuttle blocks, to no avail. Maybe have something custom made,
rather then give up the mechanical advantage?

Randy
Last edit: 5 years 11 months ago by Dosamantes.

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5 years 11 months ago #6102 by pktLvr
Replied by pktLvr on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35


The photos are of a Ronstan fork and fork ball bearing swivel, part RF78A. It should work as the boom car body.

Using this will only eliminate half the twist. We have a twisting and twisted end of the line. The twisted end should be relived, but the twisting end will be unchanged.

I plan to mess with my reef lines in the next weeks to see if there is a ‘best practice’ that will prevent the twist.

Steve
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5 years 10 months ago #6105 by hayden
Replied by hayden on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
I have to report into this thread of my single line standard "dinghy" style single line reef. We set this up last year before we headed 1,000nm down the thorny path, Flordia to Turks to DR, to PR to USVI to BVIS. Then we sailed it all spring last year March April May in the Virgin Islands. Now this year, we sailed this from Florida to Cape Look out 525 nm offshore in 15-20. on this leg we reefed and unreefed 4 times.

Bottom line. THIS WORKS GREAT. It is so simple and it has zero friction, and here is how easily it works.

To reef, I simply slowly lower the main halyard with my right hand as I pull in BY HAND the reef line with my left hand. I have marks on my lines so I know when the halyard is down to the right place. I lower this a bit lower and then move to the reef and winch in the last 3 feet or so making it bar tight.
Now I return to the halyard and tension it up to the mark. DONE.
So, putting in a reef is crazy easy.

To take out the reef...
It works so well we can take out the reef still while sailing on a broad reach. WOW
To take out the reef we simply toss off the break on the reef line, make sure it is running free.
Then we simply winch up the mainsail to the top. It is out as simple as that.

We did add a Strong track, the plastic track in the mast and the metal sail lugs. This makes the mainsail slide easiler.

Bottom line. I struggled for 17 years with these silly shuttle cars inside the boom. They would NEVER run free and taking out a reef was a nightmare. Now, it is so simple and so easy. I wish I had done this back in 2001.

If you are thinking about rebuilding your boom shuttle cars, I say, remove them. Go with this well proven (now nearly 2,000nm) single line reef on the mainsail. It works great.

Hayden

Hayden Cochran
IP35-165 Island Spirit
IslandSpirit35.blogspot.com
Rock Hall, MD

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5 years 10 months ago #6107 by Tdailey
Replied by Tdailey on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Hayden, this is great stuff! Thanks for the photo essay. A question I have is how do you remove the shuttle cars from inside the boom? If I recall, the aft end cap is riveted on the boom, so do I drill out the rivets to access the inside of the boom and then how do I pull the shuttle cars out?

This is very timely as I have been wanting to replace my reef lines because they are the last remnants of the old running rigging and look lousy. Thanks again.

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5 years 10 months ago #6109 by PlumBob
Replied by PlumBob on topic Re: Single line mainsail reefing on IP35
Tdailey, I can't say for all IP's, but on our IP-32, the shuttles will actually come out through the openings of the boom end cap - given that they don't have any lines through them. I'm certainly not advocating just yanking out the lines, especially if you might want to use them as messengers, but if you're careful to not lose them, you (I) can in fact get both of them out of a shuttle, and then pull the shuttle out.

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